Autonomy πŸ€Έβ€β™‚οΈπŸ”βœŠ GMB Fitness

DOMS - they suck!

November 19, 2020 GMB Fitness Season 2
Autonomy πŸ€Έβ€β™‚οΈπŸ”βœŠ GMB Fitness
DOMS - they suck!
Chapters
0:32
Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness
8:25
DOMS Is Different For Everyone
16:13
DOMS in Strength Training
24:55
DOMS in Flexibility Training
30:27
DOMS in Motor Control Training
Autonomy πŸ€Έβ€β™‚οΈπŸ”βœŠ GMB Fitness
DOMS - they suck!
Nov 19, 2020 Season 2
GMB Fitness

DOMS. Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness.

You don't like them, and they don't like you, but if you're training your body at all, you're going to have to learn to live with each other.

There's tons of myths about muscle soreness. Some people think they're the surest sign of a good workout (they're wrong). Others seem to think they indicate overtraining (also way wrong). While getting sore is a stupid thing to shoot for in your workout, they're also nothing to worry about.

We'll teach you how to know if you're too sore, what to do about it, and how to stay productive in your training without getting derailed by sore muscles.


Support the show (https://gmb.io/podcast/)

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

DOMS. Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness.

You don't like them, and they don't like you, but if you're training your body at all, you're going to have to learn to live with each other.

There's tons of myths about muscle soreness. Some people think they're the surest sign of a good workout (they're wrong). Others seem to think they indicate overtraining (also way wrong). While getting sore is a stupid thing to shoot for in your workout, they're also nothing to worry about.

We'll teach you how to know if you're too sore, what to do about it, and how to stay productive in your training without getting derailed by sore muscles.


Support the show (https://gmb.io/podcast/)

Andy: [00:00:00] All right. All right. Welcome to the Growing Muscle Burn podcast. So those of you listening...

Ryan: [00:00:07] Growing the muscles right in front of you. Yeah. Burning.

Andy: [00:00:10] The flex. You got to flex. 

Ryan: [00:00:13] It burns.

Andy: [00:00:14] It does, it does. It just always makes me think back , twenty-two scoops. 

Ryan: [00:00:20] I was just thinking that too, man. Yes. That's that podcast. We got to pull that out from wherever it is and bring it to the forefront cause that was some hilarious stuff right there. So, yeah. 

Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness

Andy: [00:00:32] So today we're going to be talking about muscles and burning. Ideally not the burning of muscles, but the burning sensation that you get while your muscles are growing.

Ryan: [00:00:47] Yes. Dum dum dum dum dum. Doms. Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. That's what we're talking about today. And actually, I don't know, kind of maybe weird, kind of not weird for us to be talking about this in relation to GMB. We're going to bring it all together and make sure that it makes sense for all of you and what you can do related to that.

But first off is in Japanese, both Andy and I are located here in Japan, and in Japanese, they have a word, kinnikutsu. Kinnikutsu is basically a DOMS, Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. I've just always liked it because I just it's pretty straightforward, but I just always thought it was funny that it was it's the, the flesh pain, the flesh pain.

Andy: [00:01:32] Yes. Pain. Yes. Yes. 

Ryan: [00:01:36] The meat pain. 

Andy: [00:01:37] I'm having some pain in my meat today, Ryan.

Ryan: [00:01:40] In my meat. Yes. I'll let somebody else work that out for you. So let's talk a little bit about DOMS and what's going on with that. So, today basically what we're just going to be doing is talking a little bit about what DOMS are, how they happened and then also looking at different ways, related actually to GMB, how you might happen to get DOMS, basically strength, flexibility, and control, and what you can do in order to deal with that. But then also. basically go over the topic to let you know that DOMS aren't really the best thing for you when it comes to skill work.

We'll get to that a little bit later, but first off, talk a little bit about what DOMS are. I've already said this a couple of times, but Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. We've all had this before, whether it be working out, maybe just doing something new, a new activity that you got involved with, maybe, I don't know, you're out playing with your kids, throughout the afternoon and just ended up just playing a lot, ended up the next day or the day after even, and found that you're sore in a particular place in your body.

And so that's DOMS, Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness, typically 24 to 48 hours depending on what's going on as you age, that can actually occur a little later, but thing is it's all going to be dependent upon the intensity of the activity that you're doing. What's going on just basically is basically, you're just getting these little microtraumas within the muscle.

The muscle in order to grow actually needs to be taxed. The muscle actually gets these little micro traumas. And the recovery and these muscles actually growing stronger, allows them to grow bigger. So if we're talking about hypertrophy and if you really want to get big, then you are going to need a certain level of these micro tears and then the recovery of those in order to grow.

And so we're actually looking at the muscle fibers when you're doing this. They get inflamed and then they change. A lot of people interestingly think that this might be due to the cause of a buildup of lactic acid, actually found that it's, electrolytes, the lack of electrolytes and things in there. 

When it happens that you have these DOMS, simply it's just letting you know that you just did a little bit too much, a little bit more than your body was really used to. 

Andy: [00:04:02] Right. So let's clarify that real quick. Too much does not mean you should not do that much.

Ryan: [00:04:08] Absolutely.

Andy: [00:04:09] Like you said the second time, it's more than you're used to. And so I think people get the wrong idea that because they have this painful experience that they overdid it. And that's not necessarily the case. If you are continually pushing yourself to get stronger, you are going to have DOMS. It is a fact of life.

Ryan: [00:04:28] Yeah. And this is funny that you know, that you bring this up. Well, not funny, but my wife is always kind of surprised when I say, 'Oh man, I've got DOMS today.' And she's like, 'Oh my God, you've been working out since you were like five years old and you still get DOMS.'

But like you said, Andy, it is actually important not necessarily to get DOMS, but to continue to push yourself in order to grow. And I'm not just talking about growing and building bigger muscles, I'm talking about basically continuing to challenge yourself with movements and things in life, whether it be, from your workouts. 

Another example are my calves are really, really sore today. And that's because on Sunday, I went on a pretty heavy, intense hike with my son. And the particular way that we are hiking is different from what I typically do. And so therefore it put more strain on my calf muscles. So that's why I have DOMS. Doesn't necessarily mean that I overdid it. It simply means that my body experienced something that they weren't used to in a while. And therefore, we're just trying to recover. 

And again, you do need to be push yourself in order to make progress and these muscles, and these micro tears in the muscle is what's going on and those repair and that process then makes them stronger. And so this is actually a good thing. And so this is how you grow as we mentioned before. Yeah, the unfortunate thing though, is this, and this is where we're going with this whole talk today is that a lot of people base their workouts around the intensity of their DOMS. And so if they don't feel that intense, delayed onset muscle soreness, then they think, 'Oh, I didn't work out enough.'

Now, if you're a bodybuilder and let's say that you want to get is just as big as possible then there is that mindset where you need to push yourself to the point where the very next day you literally cannot squat down on the toilet because you're in such pain from your squats or something like that.

You know, that's a joke and things like that. There is again, there is, again, there is a point where you do need to push yourself so you are going to get DOMS, but an interesting study and let's see, it was in the Strength and Conditioning Journal,  entitled 'Is Post-Exercise Muscle Soreness a Valid Indicator of Muscular Adaptions?'

And they actually found that excessive DOMS should not be actively pursued cause it ultimately interferes with progress, but I think that this is pretty interesting.  Because if we really look at this, a lot of people again, will think that they need to push themselves to the point where they can't walk the next day in order to see progress.

But if you think about it this way, for what especially we're doing here in GMB, if you push yourself to the point where you can't do something the next day or the day after, then that's interfering with your lifestyle. That's interfering actually with the other stuff that you want to do in your life.

And so therefore it, rather than trying to just push yourself to  almost puke and you get these excessive DOMS, it would behoove ourselves to be able to focus on knowing exactly what is the right amount for us in order to continue to make progress so that we can continue to live the life that we want to live for our activities and for our lifestyle.

So in other words, not getting to the point where we're sore all the time. And I think this is a tough one because in order to figure that out, you are going to have to go through stages of figuring out exactly where that is. And we'll talk about this in a little bit, in terms of strength, in terms of flexibility training and your control.

But I just found that this was very interesting that in this study that it showed that actually, these real intense DOMS are actually hampering people when they're trying to build, in this case, more strength as well as hypertrophy. So pretty interesting.

DOMS Is Different For Everyone

Andy: [00:08:25] It is. It's super interesting. And I think that this is something that you were alluding to it's really important is that this is very, very individual. A lot of people seem to think that there's a specific way that a muscle soreness works that is universal and proportional to the amount of training you've done. It's not like that. This is a chemical situation in your body. Yes, it's related to the amount of micro tears in your muscles. but like you said, it's also related to electrolyte balance and is a chemical  process. It is a metabolic process that is happening as your muscles repair themselves. So this is very individual and unique to each person's body chemistry. 

So in terms of trying to figure out what is the right level of soreness or how do you know if you are just a little sore and you need to learn to deal with it. And the thing is most of the times, if you're a little sore, you move around a little bit, you can work it out and you can loosen up and feel better. You can reduce it. We'll talk about that in a few minutes, but what is a level that is, deal-with-able and what is the level where you've gone too much?

I think this is important to understand that, let's just give the example of another completely body chemistry-dependent situation where you need to determine what your personal individual tolerances and that is drinking. I think that it's very important as a part of the GMB official podcast here, we recognize that everyone listening, we're grown-ass adults, we have lives and responsibilities and we're not all perfect people and none of us are, well, I take that back. Some of us are fitness models. We have fitness models listening that are using our programs that are long-time clients.

So I can't say none of us are fitness models, but most of us are not living the fitness lifestyle professionally. And yes, we do things that are suboptimal, including drinking alcohol. I know that is shocking literally zero listeners right now. So let's be honest about it. How did you learn how much alcohol is too much for you?

You fucked up in your twenties or whatever it's legal in your country. You had to have a period of a few years or months where you drank a little bit, then you drank a little more, then you realize that was too much. Then you drank a little less. And over the course of young adulthood, most of us get to the point where we realize what our tolerance and what level is right for us.

And we also over time know that it changes as we age and as our frequency of imbibing changes, same with our frequency of training. So it's a very individual thing. And the way to find the right balance really is through experimentation. And yes, there will be times when you do overdo it and your muscle soreness will be excruciating and it will be too much and it will get in the way of living your life the way you want to.

And that is a learning experience, but at the same time, very few of us. After that experience truly follow through with the idea that we will never drink again. I completely mixed the metaphor, but I think you get the point. That doesn't mean that you should never work out hard again. It means that you continue the experiment, right?  So that is an allegory from my life. 

Ryan: [00:11:58] That's a good example. I like that because pretty much the majority of us can really relate to that. In fact, probably about a hundred percent. No, really good. And the thing I like too, it's very individual. We each have our own preference for what we like to drink as well.

And likewise, when we're looking at exercise, it's going to be the same. And so you do have a preference for a particular thing. And because you do have that preference, you are going to find that you're going to be stronger in that thing. So let's say, as you were growing up, you spent more time, running, or maybe you spent more time lifting weights.

And so as you get older, as you come back to doing those activities, you're actually gonna find that they're going to be different, in terms of DOMS in terms of what you're able to do from there too. And so it's going to change as not only as you get older, but depending upon your previous experience in having done that particular activity.

And so this is really what this is coming down to, and that is really, awareness. Are you aware of what's going on when you're doing something? Obviously when we're in GMB, we're always talking about being aware of that particular movement at the time, but this is also a very important when we're looking at pondering and reflection and looking at, after the session is done and saying, okay, this is what I did. This went well, this is maybe something that I could work on next time. But then in the next day, the next days, maybe saying, 'Okay. How am I feeling now?’

And so this is extremely important and this is really what we're moving into when we're talking about autoregulation. And so having that prior experience by assessing where you were in a particular session, and then actually addressing what's going on, and then using the application of that, which is basically just doing the work in this case, then you can really learn and say, 'Okay, I did this last time. This is what I'm feeling now a couple of days later. Oh, therefore I maybe did too much, or maybe I can do a little bit more, change things up.'

 So I think this is what's really important in bringing that awareness into this and not just saying, okay, on the piece of paper it's saying to do this, therefore, I'm going to do this, even though I was sore as whatever, for a week when I did it. By the way, if you have intense DOMS that are lasting for about a week, you need to go to a doctor because that is not good. You've done some damage.

Andy: [00:14:23] Yeah, I will say no, that's not any DOMS for like more than a handful of days. I do my martial arts training regularly, and my legs are pretty strong in the movements that I do. But maybe a month and a half ago, I took up a hike, not a very intense hike or a very long one, but there was a good amount of grade and, we were on our hands and knees for maybe 30 minutes or so. And I did that and my calves were very sore the next day. But I just had some soreness that remained for like maybe five or six days. But it wasn't painful soreness, if that makes sense. 

Ryan: [00:15:01] Right, that's different.

Andy: [00:15:02] They were  intense DOMS and it was because I, in that day, did very intense amount of work. And I can feel that 'the pump,' as it were, was gradually reducing over that time. So it's nothing to be worried about, but if you have, a muscle soreness that does not decrease at the normal rate of your soreness. Right? And I think this is another thing you just have to kind of get used to, but if it does not decrease at the normal rate, and if it stays as sore for longer than you're used to, or longer than a few days, then that is an indication that you may have created some sort of trauma that is beyond DOMS, that is not just delayed muscle soreness. It may be an actual muscle strain or something like that. And that's why Ryan say you should go to a doctor in that case, but don't just think that if your DOMS isn't fully cleared from a novel activity by a certain date, you're fucked up and you're...

Ryan: [00:16:03] Yeah, no. 

Andy: [00:16:04] Yeah. Sometimes it happens, but especially that's with novel things, but not with your regular training. With your regular training, it's usually going to fall off within two, three days. 

DOMS in Strength Training

Ryan: [00:16:13] But which also brings up another great point and this can lead into, the three areas that we have here in GMB, which are strength, flexibility, and control, motor control.

And we can actually take a look and divide these into these three areas because DOMS are actually going to be different depending on these particular areas, which I think is really fascinating, but I mean.

Andy: [00:16:35] You're kind of weird. 

Ryan: [00:16:36] Maybe I'm a little weird that way, but coming back to your example of continuing DOMS. So for example, in this case, not doing an activity and then not doing that activity, but having DOMS, but doing the activity, getting DOMS, but then also doing the activity again, and then continuing with those DOMS is different. And this is where I'm talking about, especially with strength work. 

The example that I want to talk about is the muscle up because this is actually something that we find where people, when they're working with rings right off the bat, they're like, 'Oh man, I was sore for days just doing this simple exercise.' Yeah, obviously the rings are different. They're taxing your central nervous system along with the small muscles, not just the large muscles of the body that you, most people are used to using.

Andy: [00:17:27] Right.

Ryan: [00:17:28] And so the thing is with that, the intensity, or maybe I should even just say the awareness of the DOMS are going to be different compared to some other activities that you might have done in the past. So let's say that you start off on a new program and it involves the rings and you do it on Monday.

And the very next day, you're like, 'Wow, I'm really sore. Within the next day after that you realize, wow. The soreness has increased, but I've got my workout today.' And then you do your workout because it's that day, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And so you do that. And then those DOMS continue and they continue.

But the thing is the DOMS aren't at a point where it hinders you from being able to do things. The difference is that it's going to take time for your body to get used to doing these exercises. And because you're not giving yourself a huge break of time in order to heal 100%, those, the feeling and the awareness of DOMS will continue for possibly two weeks.

Okay. Because the body's trying to get used to it. This is a little different case than what we were talking about earlier, where it's 'Holy shit. I can't sit on the toilet. I think something's wrong.' Completely different. I just want to be clear about that. 

So when we are looking at strength, especially the muscle up, what we're going to find is because we have a pull, a transition, and a push all within this one, single compound movement. The actual intensity of what's going on in the body has been elevated. And so therefore you probably feel sore all over. However, chances are, you're not just going to get up there and just do a single muscle up right away.

So there'll be stages of this particular DOMS that will happen in the very beginning. You're traditionally only working on your pulling strength and your pushing strength. And so you'll maybe be sore in the triceps and the chest, and also the biceps, possibly the back. Then after you get used to that, maybe a week.

Okay. You won't feel those probably until you start working deeply with the transition, because that is a new movement. You're taxing different parts of the body going through the full range of motion when you're doing this. So this is an example of where you just simply need to be aware of it. 

And as you're working through it, my feeling on this is because we're working on skills, you should never be so sore that you can't do something the next day. And the thing is though, in the beginning, like Andy said, what's going to happen is that you're going to start off and do that movement. You're excited about it. You'll want to do it a lot. And you'll probably be really, really sore the next day, but that's good.

It's like drinking. Okay. Now, you know how much you can handle so then next time to do that particular exercise, you can make those adjustments, use autoregulation in order to make sure that you can continue to focus on that exercise the next session that comes up. Cool. 

Andy: [00:20:31] Absolutely. 

Ryan: [00:20:31] Anything to add to that?

Andy: [00:20:32] Just to clarify, autoregulation. This is what so much of this comes down to. It's really just knowing and being aware that you ultimately are the only person who can say how many reps, how many sets, what level of an exercise is right for you. And I know that sounds daunting to a lot of people who just want the answers. And we try to make the process of learning this as efficient as possible in our programs. 

But the thing is you have to experience it and you have to be aware of yourself as you're doing the exercises. And then as Ryan was saying, later, you have to reflect and you have to be aware of the effect of it later, how it affects you the next day, how you feel and you over time, you develop this awareness. And what it lets you do is understand, okay, how much is the right amount?

How much is, how much intensity should you put into the movement? Should you go another minute or should you go another minute but maybe at a little easier pace. And it's not something that's just to say, if you don't feel good, don't do work. It's to say, learn your body and learn the signals that help you determine the right amount.

And this can get all kinds of degrees of subtle, where maybe you don't want to do very much in column A, but you can do more in column B, but over time you learn this, and this is what we're really getting at with autoregulation. It's learning DOMS is one of the parts of the signals that you can use but autoregulation is the whole kind of personal science of learning for yourself what works for you? And that's real. That's why this is even a topic for us. 

Ryan: [00:22:19] Yeah, exactly. And so in looking at strength, in particular, Andy, you brought some really good points. Something that you focus on is time.

And for some I don't, if you're listening, you probably heard this before and you've been on a GMB or listened to a GMB podcast before, but for those of you have never listened, instead of focusing on those repetitions, number of repetitions, we're looking at time-based. And so during that time, we're focusing on a single repetition done as beautifully as possible.

That means high quality form, working towards ease of movement and ease does not mean easy. It simply means the awareness in your body and feeling that you own that particular movement. You have control over that movement,  therefore you can keep your form at a high quality of form and continue to do that movement.

This is the beauty of the strength skills that we're talking about in that no, not looking at numbers. What we're looking at is each individual repetition done as well as we can. And once our form breaks down, we then move to a lower level. We can continue working on that in order to build volume and build up that strength base that we're after so that we can then look at improving and moving to a higher level of that skill. 

But if we truly do that, and we're honest with ourselves and saying, okay, that rep I just did was great. I'll do another one. I'm starting to fade there a bit. I'll do one more and try it. You do it and then realize, all right, I got to drop it down, do that. And to be honest, You shouldn't necessarily have DOMS that are so intense that it would keep you from not being able to do your next session. 

Okay. That's in theory. Okay. But again, it all comes back down to you and you being able to listen to your body and truly do what your body is asking of you. Do that. And I promise you will improve in the skill and also not have such intense stomps that keep you from not doing it. 

So that's when we're looking at strength. And so that's a good way to look at it. And then again, I use the muscle because it is a compound movement, but when we break it down, there's a lot of different parts in there.

And the actual intensity in terms of the movement itself should always be done at a level that's going to be good for you. And you might be able to have a full chin up. You might be able to have a full dip, but you might not be able to do the transition. So it's not going to be working, and you're not going to be progressing at the same level for each particular level of that transition or that dip or that pull up.

But as you're working on that, you will be able to move towards the full skill while keeping the DOMS low because you're focusing on autoregulation. All right. Cool. 

DOMS in Flexibility Training

Ryan: [00:24:55] Okay. Next up, flexibility. Now, flexibility. This is an interesting one, too, because to me it's completely different than strength, even though it is building strength, right? The reason why is.. 

Andy: [00:25:07] This is super subtle. But like when we say it's different, don't like quote somebody and be like, but flexibility really means-- we get it, but things get arbitrarily divided a certain way because everyone has arbitrary decisions. Anyway. Yeah. 

Ryan: [00:25:23] So again, looking at flexibility, we're all coming into this at different levels and every single place in our body is going to be different. So for example, I could pretty much get into front splits, like right now, cold. And the reason why I've been doing it since I was five years old. Okay. So the thing is I'm good to go with that. Totally cool. I'm good. So I know that even right now, if I were to drop into front split, probably not going to get DOMS.

Okay. I'm going to be perfectly fine with that. Other places in my body though, I know that I really need to go slower, bring better awareness of what's going on when I'm stretching and holding these end ranges of movements. So that I actually don't overtax it to the point where I'm feeling like crap the next day.

So in this case then, if we're looking at flexibility, it's more about the depth or the end range of the movement and the duration of that particular hold rather than a single repetition per se. It would be when we're performing that repetition, if you will, but when we're going into that end range, are we aware of how deep we need to go into that movement for where we are in our life right now. 

And this is a tough one. Again, this comes back to experience and the only way to do it is to actually get on the mat and do it. It's like everything we do in GMB, you just have to practice and you have to do it and try it. Explore in order to figure out exactly what you need. But when it comes to flexibility, to be honest in the beginning, I feel that less is more.

And so going slower with your flexibility in terms of not pushing yourself to that end range, but allowing yourself into that end range by spending time with your flexibility over the course of a week, two weeks, three weeks, a month actually in the long run I feel is going to be better off for you unless you have to get center splits in a month for something, which I did no idea what the hell that would be.

Andy: [00:27:33] Right. And this is important because I know that we have some listeners that are using. Different methods. And, so like our friends, like Kit Loughlin, his methods or, the people that FRC can stretch. And we know all of them too. Looking strictly at flexibility and what is the optimal or most effective method to get more flexible or mobile, if you will, in the shortest amount of time taken in that, with that limited context, those methods, I think are much faster and more effective than what we teach if you are only looking at flexibility and only looking at increasing that particular attribute in the shortest amount of time. And if that is your goal, that is absolutely fine. There are very legitimate reasons that might be the case.

And what will happen is you'll do very intense stretches for long durations and you will absolutely have DOMS. You will zbsolutely have killer soreness. And you will do this low frequency, high intensity. And you'll absolutely have lots of soreness and it, the results work, but for us, the reason that we don't, that we, our method is a little different is that we are not looking at flexibility in a vacuum.

We are looking at flexibility as one part of your training and as something that has to work in the rest of your life. And one decision that we made early in GMB is that, we never want our training to make you less effective at your day job the next day. 

 So to do that, we may focus less on the intense flexibility, but meanwhile, we can also be working on other things on motor control and strength and different things. So like we just shift the mix basically. And so we have a little slower steadier methods with our flexibility that don't get you as sore from that, but we have other things that we're doing at the same time.

And so that's really the thing is there's different philosophies on some of this stuff, but for GMB, like we strongly feel that your workout should not detract from your daily life. Very, very strongly. I will fucking fight anyone about this. I mean, Kit and FRC dudes. I don't actually want to fight you guys.

But yeah, when it comes down to it, I think this is really important for us, but this, everyone has their own priorities. So this is like one way of saying that, flexibility should make you sore. That's not saying that these systems that the flexibility training absolutely will make you sore.

We're not saying they're wrong. So completely different context. And, what all these guys do is actually very, very good. It's just not what we do. And we're also trying to do other things at the same time. 

DOMS in Motor Control Training

Andy: [00:30:27] So with that, moving on to one of those other things, being the motor control aspect, which is kind of the third leg of the GMB stool, if you want to use a really awkward metaphor, And how this works with soreness too, because people don't really think about this, but skill acquisition is also going to tax your muscles in a lot of ways that are weird.

Ryan: [00:30:53] Yeah. Yeah. And this is what you just said is a great lead in, because if we're looking at really what we're after here in GMB, in terms of, the flexibility component of this is, are you just good enough to be able to do the things you need to do? It's not that you need to get to a particular, like I mentioned before, center splits or front splits. Gotta be honest, the majority of people out there don't need them. You just don't need them. 

But the important thing is to know exactly what you need and that's it. And so when we're looking at control then, let's say that we're working on the butterfly kick. Beautiful move. Okay. Now the thing is, is the majority of people can actually do a butterfly kick no problem. Okay. 

But at what height can you perform the butterfly kick? It's so this is where things start to change. And this is where a person might find DOMS is when they start to elevate and take that  B-kick higher, they might find that they actually don't have the flexibility to do that. Okay, great. We know what the issue is now because we have assessed that. 

And so how do we address that? Well, now this is a good case where you realize that your flexibility is not good enough. Therefore, what does good enough mean? And how far do you need to take that flexibility to get there? You only need to take it to the point where you're able to do it.

So this is where you can go back. Figure out exactly what you need to do to work on your flexibility and then just test it. And I'm not saying that you need to automatically try and jump and get to a certain point. No, you just do a little bit of flexibility. Then you go back and do your B-kick and you say, okay, am I good enough to do that now?

If so, great. You're good. You don't necessarily need more flexibility to do that. Okay. So this is what I think is very interesting is because typically when you look at control movements, it's a lack of flexibility in a particular range of motion. Or, that you haven't done a particular movement before, and you don't have the control to stop your forward momentum or It could be whatever you need to go on with it.

Andy: [00:32:52] Right. Strength in a particular range of motion or the strength to protect, which is a big part of flexibility too, the strength, the nervous system's kind of belief in your muscular ability to protect you if shit goes wrong. 

Ryan: [00:33:07] Exactly. So that bracing is actually what is going to cause that, that muscle soreness because you're tensing.

Andy: [00:33:13] Causes DOMS, absolutely.

Ryan: [00:33:15] And and this is to me again, just so fascinating because a lot of people would say, β€˜Oh, DOMS end of conversation.’ But we were to really break things down and look at, okay, these are, can be different causes of these DOMS and being more aware, this is actually going to allow you to have more freedom, to be honest, and actually more confidence to know that your body can handle certain things that you might've been scared of before.

So for example, just saying the DOMS are going to be the same all throughout. You get DOMS when you're doing, the B-kick or something like that, you might automatically think, 'Oh, I don't have enough  strength ' when in actuality it might be that you don't have flexibility. Not a problem. Okay, let's go back.

I'm not saying it's always going to be that. I'm just saying that we just need to be aware and then take a step back and assess the situation. And so this is what I think can give us a lot of freedom to be able to move forward, and really look at what we need. And it all comes back to that autoregulation.

So, wrapping things up. That's really what it comes down to is that autoregulation. We are training for life here in GMB. Okay. So your workouts should not keep you from being able to live your life, should not keep you from being able to do the activities. If you're doing your workout, and you're so sore that you can't go and play with your kids, go on your hike, do the things that you want to do, and you have to take a break from that, then why are you doing it, right?  What's the purpose?

Andy: [00:34:40] Circular logic. You're thinking, if I were to take my example and say, Oh, I'm doing this martial art, and I want to be able to kick faster. So I need to improve my hip flexibility so I have less restriction. I can speed up the speed of my kick, which increases the power, and so I'm going to do the stretching so I can improve my hip flexibility and I can improve my kicking. And so I stretch the hell out of myself. And then the next day I'm so sore that I can't do my martial arts practice. Well, so like I'm actually defeating the purpose of the whole thing. And I think people do this a lot.

We say, I want to get stronger for X. So I'm going to work out so hard that I can't do X. Don't do that to yourself. Yeah. Yeah. 

Ryan: [00:35:22] But yeah, this is the thing too. Like we have talked about where, you do need to learn and so it is a learning process. Just figure out how much is good enough for you.

That is going to allow you to continue to make progress, but at the same time also allow you to continue to be able to do the activities and the things that you enjoy doing in your life. that's where we're at with that again. Interesting topic for me. I love this kind of thing. And, yeah, if you have any questions or anything for us, we're always here to answer those. 

And, I'm going to go do some squats to the point where I can't sit down on the toilet tomorrow because I don't have anything better to do so two scoops, baby. Yeah. 

Andy: [00:35:58] Sounds like a plan. Get huge. 

Ryan: [00:36:00] Huge. Thanks for listening everybody. Bye. Bye.

Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness
DOMS Is Different For Everyone
DOMS in Strength Training
DOMS in Flexibility Training
DOMS in Motor Control Training