Training While Tall

Ryan (00:01):
Hey Everybody, welcome to the Giant Man Banquet Podcast. This is a special one for all you tall people out there like myself. Of course, that's a joke. I'm here with lead trainer, Jeffrey "Too Tall" clark. What's up, man?
 
Jeffrey (00:18):
Hey Ryan, thanks for having me today.
 
Ryan (00:20):
Yeah, brother. So, just to let everybody know, Jeff and I, we're hitting the drinks hard today. I'm sitting here with my water and Jeff ... Jeff, show them what you've got. Show them what you've got.
 
Jeffrey (00:33):
I've got a mostly empty baby bottle for me.
 
Ryan (00:38):
How old is your baby right now?
 
Jeffrey (00:40):
He's three and a half months, I think. Yeah, three and half months.
 
Ryan (00:43):
That's so awesome, man. So, basically you're getting a lot of sleep and loving life right now. That's great, man.
 
Jeffrey (00:48):
It's not too bad.
 
Ryan (00:48):
Okay, so I kind of hinted at this before, but today we're going to be talking about some of the challenges that tall people have when doing skill work. Now, I'm not very tall. I mean, compared to you, I'm not very tall. I'm five-nine, a little taller if I stand up straight. But how tall are you, Jeff?
 
Jeffrey (01:12):
I'm six foot four, so pretty tall.
 
Ryan (01:16):
Pretty tall. Yeah, man.
 
Jeffrey (01:17):
I'm qualified to talk about this.
 
Ryan (01:18):
Definitely, definitely. And what we're going to do, mainly Jeff, is going to share his experiences with us and we're going to talk about some ways that are going to make your training a little bit easier on yourself if you do happen to be tall.
 
Ryan (01:31):
Now, I do want to say that you don't have to be a tall person to listen to this one. There's a lot of good advice that's going to be applicable to everyone listening.
 
Common Questions About Being Tall and Working Out
 
Ryan (01:42):
Let's go ahead and just get into it. First off, this is a question that we receive sometimes, right? Jeff, you work on GMB staff and work in support. You're answering emails. And so, what is one of your favorite questions regarding people being tall that you get on the emails?
 
Jeffrey (02:04):
The two I'd say we get the most of, "I'm too tall. Can I still do a deep squat?" and "Why are pull-ups impossible?"
 
Ryan (02:15):
Now, you've got a lot of experience with pull-ups and we can get into that now or later if you want. You want to do that now?
 
Jeffrey (02:24):
Yeah, I can talk about it.
 
Ryan (02:24):
All right. Yeah.
 
Jeffrey (02:27):
In 2002, when I was 19, I joined the Marine Corps, and before that I hadn't done any real strength training. I was really active, but it was all endurance kind of stuff. I could run. I could ... You could put a pack on me and I'd go forever, but I wasn't that strong.
 
Jeffrey (02:48):
I joined the Marine Corps and when I joined ... So, pull-ups are huge in the Marines. If you can't do a lot of pull-ups, it kind of says something about your worth. And when I joined, I couldn't really do any pull-ups. I could do maybe one or two. And these are dead hand pull-ups, so all the way down, lock out the arm all the way up, chin clears the bar.
 
Jeffrey (03:06):
I had about six months to get ready, so during that time I got up to about four pull-ups and then went to bootcamp and found out that four is not really that great. You need at least 10 or more. The minimum is three, but if you're not doing 10, you get looked down on.
 
Jeffrey (03:25):
So, struggled through bootcamp. Got them up to, I think I got nine when I got out and then over the next four years, I got them pretty high. I got up to 17.
 
Ryan (03:35):
Wow.
 
Jeffrey (03:36):
One thing I do remember is doing pull-ups, and I'd be straining and struggling and I'd get 10 or 12, or however many I was getting. And then I'd look over and there'd be somebody next to me who would be short and he would just bust out 20 like it was nothing.
 
Jeffrey (03:53):
I always thought how unfair that was, because thinking about our arms, I have to pull an extra two feet and I probably weigh 30 pounds more. And I know that's not super fair, because it was the Marine Corps, everybody's working hard. But to me at the time, it seemed super unfair.
 
Ryan (04:10):
No. I hear you there. I mean, it makes sense. This is something also to think about. I'm sorry to jump in here, but like gymnasts. When you see a gymnast, you don't see tall gymnasts. You just don't.
 
Ryan (04:25):
And I'm not saying that you have to be short in order to be a gymnast, but there are just certain things that actually make it easier for people to be able to do when they're a bit more compact, if you will.
 
Ryan (04:37):
And yeah, that story in the Marines, I remember us talking about this a while ago and this is why I actually wanted you to talk about it. And so, I just thought that was always interesting. So, really having to work hard in order to do those pull-ups.
 
Ryan (04:55):
Another interesting thing, too, I think that you brought up was that you said you had three months to get ready. Is that right? Three months? Six months?
 
Jeffrey (05:04):
Six months. About six months month.
 
Ryan (05:05):
Six months and you went from a couple to a couple more and that was it.
 
Jeffrey (05:12):
Right.
 
Ryan (05:12):
And the thing of it, it's not like, "I've got six months. I'm going to be able to do 20", or something like that. I mean, we're talking just a few more. Normally, that would be great, and that's a really, really good thing.
 
Ryan (05:27):
This is also something I think is really important. When you're in the Marines, I'm assuming you pretty much do pull-ups almost every day. Is that a good assumption?
 
Jeffrey (05:37):
Yeah, most of the time.
 
Ryan (05:39):
Most of the time. Yeah.
 
Jeffrey (05:42):
Yeah, I was thinking about that, because I was super proud going into bootcamp. I'm like, "Yeah, I can do three or four more now," and it definitely was not enough. But yeah, pull-ups are big in the Marine Corps, so there's pull-up bars everywhere and you do a lot of them.
 
Ryan (05:58):
Yeah. But that's really interesting to me, because I think that could actually be looked at as a success, to be perfectly honest, going from, let's just say even one or two and doubling that. I think that's huge.
 
Ryan (06:15):
I don't know. I just wanted to throw that out there, because some people listening who are struggling being tall and not being able to do pull-ups and things like that, and thinking that you have to be able to do 10 or 20 or something like that ... No, I think just being able to double it as a huge thing.
 
Ryan (06:35):
You mentioned longer lever arms, legs, body. What does this mean for you as well when you're working through other movements? You mentioned the squat. If you can explain why this might be different.
 
Ryan (06:49):
For a person who isn't tall, who doesn't really necessarily have an issue with this, what are some of the things that you're going through that make these difficult for you?
 
Jeffrey (06:58):
Okay. Yeah, there's a couple things. One, you're just having to move through a longer or a larger range of motion. If you're doing a pull-up, you have further to pull. If you're squatting, you have further to go down.
 
Jeffrey (07:11):
Especially with something like pull-ups, it's a further distance to pull. You're under tension longer, so it's just going to be harder. Also, having a longer lever, you're going to need more force, be able to generate more force to be able to move it or to hold it steady.
 
Jeffrey (07:29):
Something like a pull-up, you're going to have to generate more force to move that lever. A handstand, you're going to need more force to keep it steady. Planches, levers, anything where you're having to hold it steady, it's going to be harder, the longer the lever is, so, your body, your arms, your legs, all of that.
 
Jeffrey (07:49):
And then not always, but oftentimes if you're taller, you're just going to weigh more, so you're actually having to pull more weight or you're having to balance more weight. There's that as well.
 
Ryan (08:02):
Yeah. A couple of things I want to dive into a little bit later, but handstands, looking at planches and all of these really put more stress on the small joints when you're taller, and not just making it more difficult in terms of the actual movement, but actually putting more strain on the body, like you said.
 
Cautions and Injuries
 
Ryan (08:24):
So, let's go into a little bit about, I don't want to necessarily say injuries, but some cautions, some things that people should be aware of if you are tall. What are some of the things, maybe the injuries?
 
Ryan (08:39):
I know you've had some injuries. Maybe that was related to the fact that you were tall. Maybe it's because, I don't know, you were in the Marine Corps and had to ruck a lot. I don't know. Could you talk a little bit about some of the injuries and things?
 
Jeffrey (08:54):
Yeah. Some of my injuries, I'm sure it's a combination of a lot of things, which I think is probably true for everybody, but mostly you can break it down to overuse and, form issues. And there's usually an overlap between the two, but I think that's pretty good. There's also catastrophic injuries and stuff, but that's unrelated.
 
Jeffrey (09:16):
Overuse injuries would be things that happen when you're doing too much past your capabilities, so doing more than your body's ready for. We talked about it with the pull-up bars and in the Marines, but when I was in the Marines I was 19. I was doing pull-ups every day. I was doing pull-ups all the time, multiple times a day.
 
Jeffrey (09:38):
I didn't really know much about training, so I'd just do as many as I could all the time. And it worked really well for me then, but I was 19, so my body could handle it. Doing that now, I wouldn't be as lucky. I wouldn't be able to get away with that. You can do a lot more when you're younger. Your body can recover.
 
Jeffrey (10:00):
Some of the other things that you would get with that, like if I was trying to do that now, say, just do max sets of pull-ups all the time. With pull-ups you get inflammation on the inside of the elbow, golfer's elbow. It's something we get a lot from people that are doing a lot of pulling exercises or rings work.
 
Jeffrey (10:20):
If you're in martial arts and you just start and you're doing jujitsu or judo and you're gripping the gi all the time, the uniform, that can be an issue there. So, anything with gripping, but another common one would be, like you said, the wrists and hand balancing, but also with locomotion, so things in Elements.
 
Jeffrey (10:42):
And since it's overuse we're thinking about: rushing it, not really paying attention to how you're feeling and just doing too much, doing more than you're ready for and not taking the time to adjust to that.
 
Jeffrey (10:55):
With form, I think it would be more like issues with the low back, the knees and the ankles. And this can come into things like if you're doing overhead work.
 
Jeffrey (11:09):
So, you have pull-ups where you're overhead or you're doing handstands or your arms are overhead, and if you don't have that shoulder flexibility and you're still trying to do it, you might compensate by overextending the back. And then you're putting pressure on your extended back, and then you might have low back issues.
 
Jeffrey (11:26):
Or if you're squatting and you don't have the mobility or the flexibility to get your knees over your feet and your knees are caving in, then you might have some issues on the inside of your knees or your ankles might roll over, so you have issues on the inside of the ankles, things like that.
 
Jeffrey (11:48):
Practicing with proper form is going to help with a lot of that and then proper programming would help with a lot of these overuse things.
 
Ryan (12:00):
Yeah, now this is, I mean, of course applies to everybody out there, and when you were talking about the handstand, especially in looking at if you have shorter range of motion in terms of not having the proper range of motion in your shoulders, obviously another place in your body is going to need to take up the slack and therefore, it's going to have to compensate for that and it could lead to injuries.
 
Ryan (12:24):
But, I do know in your case, you've had some real issues with your back, a crippling injury, if you will, that's actually frustrated you a lot over the years. I know this because I've worked with you on your handstand and things like that.
 
Jeffrey (12:41):
Right.
 
Programming for Handstand and Other Skills
 
Ryan (12:42):
We can talk a little bit about that. And you brought up a really great point in the programming side of that, so if you could talk a little bit about your frustration that you've had in, specifically for your goals, like with the handstand and how you've actually changed up and cycled your programming in order to match what you needed as being a tall person, and looking at the certain things that have happened in your body over time.
 
Jeffrey (13:08):
Right. Yeah, I think ... Well, what you said, these do apply to everybody. These are just things that I've noticed a lot with taller people and with myself.
 
Jeffrey (13:18):
The handstand? Yeah, I had a lot of back issues and I know a lot of that was not from handstands. It was from prior injuries and just use, wear and tear. But I think an important thing is ...
 
Jeffrey (13:37):
Well, I mean, we could talk about the GMB method and using that, because that's what I would say to get through something like this, is using that assessment and finding what is going on.
 
Jeffrey (13:52):
For me, some of it was some shoulder flexibility. Some of it was some core strength, figuring out what that is, so assessing and then addressing it. Figuring out what to do to fix that and then applying that.
 
Jeffrey (14:08):
So, taking a step back from my handstand and working more on my wrists, working on my shoulders, working line work and staying on the wall for longer, things like that so that I can keep that good line and not let my back overextend.
 
Jeffrey (14:25):
Because, that was what was causing me pain. When I'd bail out, my back was in a bad position. It would just be too much for my back. Then I'd be sore. Once I could start to address that a little bit more intelligently instead of just trying to do it, it made a big difference.
 
Ryan (14:43):
Oh, that's really good, and again, applicable to everybody who's listening out there. I know there are times where you did get frustrated.
 
Jeffrey (14:51):
Oh, yeah.
 
Ryan (14:52):
We all get there. What are some things that you've noticed that you've had to do ... And you've already hinted at these, maybe giving yourself a little bit more time, but specifically, if you're looking at not even just in your workouts, but in your daily living, what are some things that you've maybe had to make adaptions?
 
Ryan (15:12):
Or again, frustration is what I mentioned before. What are some things that you do and how you have to tweak things in order to make sure that you just don't want to go and strangle somebody?
 
Jeffrey (15:26):
Right. Well, yeah, that frustration is real and when you're grinding away at something day after day and you're just not seeing progress or you're getting injured or you're going backwards, it's a lot. There's a lot of frustration there.
 
Jeffrey (15:43):
I think first off there's a mindset change that I would have to make that helped me a lot, especially with skill training. And it's when I was thinking about working towards a more advanced skill and then ...
 
Jeffrey (15:55):
So, having something that was a little bit more advanced, like say the muscle up, and then that's my goal, but then just setting it aside and not really worrying about that. Then using the method and figuring out what do I need to get there and then focusing on that instead.
 
Jeffrey (16:09):
And I worked on the muscle up with you. I did pull-ups and dips and the transition. I didn't do the muscle up for, I don't know, six weeks, maybe something like that, but then since I wasn't so stressed about that muscle up, it made a big difference in my daily training and I could just focus on what I was doing that day.
 
Jeffrey (16:34):
So, working on just my pull-ups, working on my dips, working on my transition and then one day you're like, "Okay, next session I want you to try the muscle up," and then I could. I got one. It wasn't pretty, but I got it. Instead of constantly being stressed and trying to just grind through something that I wasn't able to do. So, I think that mindset is a big part.
 
Ryan (16:53):
Put trust in the process and enjoy the journey, basically. Yeah, focus on what's right in front of you. Yeah. Cool, man.
 
Jeffrey (17:01):
Yeah, absolutely. And it just makes it ... It makes it more enjoyable and that's what we all want. We want to be able to enjoy our training. So
 
Ryan (17:10):
Yeah, I will it did take a little bit longer in terms of maybe compared to other people. I mean, to be honest, though, I thought it was pretty quick, but I mean, maybe in your mind it was a little bit longer. But I do know that you recommend people to understand that it might take a little bit longer if you are taller.
 
Jeffrey (17:29):
Well, especially, yeah, talking about somebody that's taller to do something like, say, a pull-up. Like I said earlier, you're pulling a further distance. You need to be a little bit stronger than somebody who has shorter arms relatively and that's going to take time to build up.
 
Jeffrey (17:46):
So, not only having that goal and setting it aside, but then also knowing that it's going to be a longer process, possibly. I mean, it might not be, but in most cases it's going to be a longer journey to get it and being okay with that and knowing it beforehand so that you're not stressed out when your progress seems slower. I think that's very important. Yeah.
 
Form in Daily Life
 
Ryan (18:06):
Oh, that is good. Something that I never really thought about because I'm so self-centered, you know me ... You brought this up before, being tall ... I think, actually, because you and I, and also Rose and Chris, it was when we were in California ... Because, that was really the first time that we all hung out outside of work.
 
Ryan (18:33):
What was that you were talking about, like something being so low? I thought it was just normal and you were just like, "Oh, my God. This is so low." Maybe it was a sink or something in the hotel. I don't remember.
 
Jeffrey (18:44):
Oh, right.
 
Ryan (18:46):
The things that you have to think about are just so different from what I think about, and so, having you around has also helped me to be able to expand the way that I'm looking at things and learn. So anyway, thank you for doing that.
 
Jeffrey (19:00):
Right. It's not a huge thing. I mean, it's not ... I mean I'm only six foot four, but most surfaces in houses and stuff ...
 
Ryan (19:10):
They're a little lower?
 
Jeffrey (19:10):
... they're built for shorter people.
 
Ryan (19:12):
Sure, sure. Especially in Japan, by the way. So, you'd have to ...
 
Jeffrey (19:16):
Oh, I'm sure. I said earlier, my son and he's three and a half months, and this really came to light recently because we brought him home from the hospital and when I was changing him, his changing table is the perfect height for my wife, who's five foot five. I noticed that a week or two after having him home, my back was hurting and it was hurting when I was changing him.
 
Jeffrey (19:41):
I'd pick him up out of his crib and my back would hurt, and I was like, "He's ..." He weighed five pounds and it made me realize that I wasn't using good form to change him, which sounds stupid, but ...
 
Ryan (19:55):
No, but it's ...
 
Jeffrey (19:57):
Yeah, I was hunched over, my back was rounded, my shoulders were forward and I was just placing a lot of weight and picking up five pounds over and over at that weird position. It was making my back's sore. So, being more aware of that.
 
Jeffrey (20:11):
Like for me when I have to shave, the sink's super low, so trying to keep my back straight, trying to hinge at the hips. Things like that make a big difference.
 
Ryan (20:21):
Yeah. Repetitive stress syndrome, if you will. Yeah, exactly. Just, it's so interesting. All right, so basically, it just comes down to the fact, though, if you're really, really tall, you're screwed, right? There's nothing you can do. You're just screwed. You should just give up, right?
 
Jeffrey (20:43):
Yeah, just quit.
 
Ryan (20:43):
Yeah.
 
Jeffrey (20:44):
No.
 
Specific Tips
 
Ryan (20:44): 
Of course, we're kidding. What are some things, what are some suggestions, for example, some practical things to look at in terms of when we're doing our sessions and working on skills? What are some specific things that we can look at that's going to help? 
 
Jeffrey (21:01): 
Right. There's a couple of things we can think about. I like assessing and then figuring out what's going on, and that can be really helpful for something like this, so figuring out what you want to do, figuring out where you're currently at, and figuring out what you need to do to get there. 
 
Jeffrey (21:19): 
It can be kind of hard if you don't have a coach, so I like having people film themselves. Even if you're not sharing it with anybody, just film yourself to see what you're doing and that can give you an idea of what to work on. 
 
Jeffrey (21:31): 
Other than that, then we can talk about making sure you're at the right progression, which we talked about earlier. If you're wanting to work on pull-ups, start with a dead hang on the bar. Make sure you can do that. If you can do that, then you can work on starting in the top position, so having a step or a box and coming up to the bar or a lower bar and then slowly lowering down. 
 
Jeffrey (21:55): 
Then you can work on jumping up to the bar and slowly lowering down, thinking of ways that you can make it easier to progress instead of just trying to do the full pull-up. You're just hanging at the bottom bar trying to pull and you can't get anywhere. I think that can make a big difference. 
 
Ryan (22:18): 
What about rep scheme, like sets and things like that? How have you adjusted those for yourself? 
 
Jeffrey (22:27): 
Especially for skills, doing less reps but more sets, or less attempts. I think less attempts is better, so you're not really worried too much about reps. But doing just a few attempts. Take a break. Do a few attempts. Take a break. Spread it out over more steps, so you're doing more, but you're getting those breaks in between so you're not fatiguing as fast. 
 
Ryan (22:51): 
Very cool. Very cool. And again, very applicable to everybody out there. I mean, that's what I suggest for anything really, is looking at your form, making sure that you're doing it beautifully, less number of repetitions, and then just doing more of those particular skills that you're doing, getting more volume. 
 
Ryan (23:15): 
This is great. So, just because you're tall doesn't mean that you can't do this stuff, which is wonderful. You just need to do it a little bit differently. 
 
Jeffrey (23:22): 
You just have to change up some things sometimes. 
 
Ryan (23:24): 
Yeah. This is good, man. To kind of wrap things up here, again, figure out what you want and especially, look at where you're currently at. 
 
Ryan (23:32): 
Just because you see a workout plan out there that says that you should be doing X number of repetitions or something like that, it doesn't, again, necessarily mean you should be doing them. Figure out what's going to be good for you and then figure out how you can get there. 
 
Ryan (23:50): 
You mentioned before, ankle range of motion for the squat. You might need to spend a little bit more time working on that, a little bit more time, possibly working on your shoulders, getting your shoulders and your arms strong in order to actually be able to do handstands. 
 
Ryan (24:07): 
And just continue doing it. Like everything out there, you just need to work at it and be smart about it. Let's finish up here with a bonus tip. What's a bonus tip for the tall folk out there? 
 
Jeffrey (24:23): 
Okay. Well, we kind of talked about it, but one thing I think is super important is that daily living form. Think about how you're interacting with your environment, thinking about how you're sitting and how you're brushing your teeth or shaving or doing the dishes and trying to get in ... 
 
Jeffrey (24:43): 
It's hard to say good form for doing dishes, but try not to be hunched forward and try to keep your back straight. Other than that, I think flexibility is super important, especially if you're tall. 
 
Jeffrey (24:59): 
For things like the squat, you have deeper to go, so make sure that you're working on your ankles and your hips, your shoulders for hand stands, things like that. So, prioritize flexibility and pay attention when you're doing dishes. 
 
Ryan (25:14): 
All right, man. This is really good stuff. Thanks for being on. Thanks for listening, everybody, and we'll see you next time. 
 
Jeffrey (25:21): 
Thanks, man. 
 
Ryan (25:21): 
Bye-bye.