Why Beating Yourself Up Doesn't Work

Ryan: [00:00:00] Hello everyone, welcome to the Granite Monolith Bigfoot podcast, where we dive deep into discoveries about wild animals in the woods. Not really. How you doing there, Josh?

Josh: [00:00:15] What's up, man? How's it going?

Ryan: [00:00:16] What are you drinking, man?

Josh: [00:00:18] I'm drinking, MiO? It's a little bit of, it's a caffeine Squirt thing and a water.

Ryan: [00:00:27] Caffeine Squirt?

Josh: [00:00:28] It just, it-

Ryan: [00:00:28] Is that what happens if you actually drink too much coffee, I thought?

Josh: [00:00:31] It is.

Ryan: [00:00:32] That, yeah,  

Josh: [00:00:33] And I save, and here it is right here [laughs].

'Beating Yourself Up' in Media & Marketing

Ryan: [00:00:35] [laughs] Goodness gracious. Today, we're gonna be talking about beating yourself up over food and how that actually doesn't work.

Josh: [00:00:46] Yeah. [laughs] It really doesn't.

Ryan: [00:00:47] Guilt, man, guilt. Talking about guilt. thing is, if that did work, then everyone would be the way they would want to look. And I just wanna say, everyone listening, you're fine the way you are, okay? Just, we'll just start with that. You look at magazines, social media, everything. It's these guilt trips that we really, w- we can fall into. And it's good marketing. I mean, you know-

Josh: [00:01:15] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:01:15] ... if you wanna sell a lot of stuff and supplements, then  that's the way to go. It's not the only way to go, but I mean you do see this a whole lot. But thing is, again, we're gonna be talking, or mainly you just basically, talking about the concept of beating yourself up over ways of eating that, I don't wanna say that you shouldn't be doing, that maybe there's something that you're doing where you feel bad about it. Without further ado-

Josh: [00:01:37] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:01:37] ... let's get into this topic because there's a lot to talk about here. And  

Josh: [00:01:41] Do it.

Ryan: [00:01:41] ... let's do it, man. do it.

Josh: [00:01:43] Yeah, so kinda like you said, man, there is a lot of marketing out there, and there is a lot of, there are a lot of trainers that, that essentially preach like you should feel bad, and you should beat yourself up, and you're bad if you don't look the way that they think you should look, and bad foods and good foods. I think a lot of, I was ju-, [laughs] I was just looking at statistics on weight loss and dieting, and the number of people in the world, [laughs] that tried to lose weight last year was, 44%. And women in the United States-

Ryan: [00:02:16] In the world, of everyone that they looked at, 44% of people were looking at dieting.

Josh: [00:02:22] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:02:22] Wow.

Josh: [00:02:22] Yeah, and they looked at North American, Europe, North America, Europe and Asia.

Ryan: [00:02:26] Okay.

Josh: [00:02:27] And it was different in different places and things like that, the highest is actually women in the United States.

Ryan: [00:02:32] Wow.

Josh: [00:02:33] 56% of women last year tried to lose weight.

Ryan: [00:02:37] Man.

Josh: [00:02:37] Like more than one out of every two. And then, with guys in the United States, it was like 47%. A lot of people are trying to lose to weight.

Ryan: [00:02:44] Yeah.

Josh: [00:02:44] And there's, we get a lot of marketing messages, and a lot of stuff that we may have heard from their trainers or whatever-

Ryan: [00:02:50] Sure.

Josh: [00:02:50] ... that's all kinda "If you haven't lost, if you want a certain body type, you should feel bad. And, and shows like The Biggest Loser or you feeling terrible is the way to get there, like that's  your motivation." And, and it absolutely doesn't work, and it's kinda destructive, and it hurts people's wellbeing. And, okay, so I shouldn't say that it doesn't work beca-, if we're gonna be really clear.  Shame doesn't work, shame makes people, shuts down motivation entirely.

Shame completely destroys motivation. Guilt is a very fleeting form of motivation, right? It can work in, for a very short amount of time. An- and so I don't wanna say it doesn't work.

Ryan: [00:03:33] That makes sense, yep.

Josh: [00:03:33] Like I felt guilty and I started.

Ryan: [00:03:35] Yeah  

Josh: [00:03:36] It could get you started, but it's not going to get you-

Ryan: [00:03:39] Where you wanna go.

Josh: [00:03:40] It's not gonna get you there. Yeah. Yeah, it's not enough.

Ryan: [00:03:42] All right.

Josh: [00:03:42] Unless you are on The Biggest Loser, and someone can guilt you constantly, 12 hours a day. And I have a friend who was on The Biggest Loser [laughs] and that was not healthy. That was not useful.

Ryan: [00:03:52] I was just saying, I mean mentally, I mean looking at-

Josh: [00:03:55] Yeah, it's not good.

Ryan: [00:03:56] Down the road too, I'm assuming that, we're just looking at trauma then basically is what's going on, right?

Josh: [00:04:02]  Yeah.

Ryan: [00:04:02] So a whole other topic there. But my goodness gracious. I will say I have never watched that show.

Josh: [00:04:09] Oh, really?

Ryan: [00:04:09] Yeah, just because I know-

Josh: [00:04:12] It's a train wreck. Was a train wreck? Is it still going?

Ryan: [00:04:14] Is it going? I don't even know if it's going.

Josh: [00:04:16] I don't know.

Ryan: [00:04:16] Every time someone would bring it up, I just, the emotions I had about that, because I was like, "This cannot be good."

Josh: [00:04:22] [laughs]

Ryan: [00:04:22] "This cannot be good." It just, I just couldn't do it.

Josh: [00:04:24] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:04:25] Anyway.

Josh: [00:04:26] Fingernails on chalkboard.

Ryan: [00:04:27] Yes. [laughs]

Josh: [00:04:28] But that's just an example. You know what I mean?

Ryan: [00:04:30] Sure.

Josh: [00:04:30] I mean we've had plenty of clients that got that same thing from their parents, right?

Ryan: [00:04:35] [laughs] Yeah.

Josh: [00:04:36] Or they got that in PE class.

Ryan: [00:04:38] Yeah.

Josh: [00:04:38] Or got that in... You know what I mean? I t's not even , it's just  a lot of people have seen that and know that.

Ryan: [00:04:42] Mm-hm [affirmative].

Josh: [00:04:43] And, and so that's one of those things where yeah, that's just bad for business. What I want people to know about that though is that if they have that thing where they've... I've had so many clients, dude, where they get on the scale every week or for their l-, decades, they get on the scale every week and, and then beat themselves up about it, right? And, and it's... What I want people to know is that the thoughts that they have had for years and years about that... if that's where they're coming from, those thoughts that they've had about their body and the way that they've beaten themselves up about it, isn't gonna go away.

Ryan: [00:05:18] Mmhm [affirmative].

Josh: [00:05:19] I mean maybe you can turn down the volume a l-, a little bit, but I'm not talking about taking a lifetime of beating yourself up about food and saying "Stop doing that next week."  It's more a matter of realizing,"Hey, me feeding that... is unworkable, and me dwelling on it and spinning it over and over again, really just want people to notice and come back to another way.   

Ryan: [00:05:42] Sure.

Josh: [00:05:43] ... maybe that's where we should take it.

Ryan: [00:05:44] And yeah. No, and that sounds good, moving that way, looking at kind of some things that we can do in order to, not expect that we can shut that off overnight.

Josh: [00:05:56] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:05:56] With certain things that we've been thinking about and dealing with for many years, you're not going to be able to just change it overnight. It's a process and, as you say, bringing awareness back to the simple fact that, "Oh, I am maybe thinking this way right now," and just understanding that, you won't be able to change it right away. But by bringing awareness to it, that awareness is then gonna allow you to focus on the things that you need to do in order to start making that change, right?

Josh: [00:06:23] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:06:23] Like with anything, yep.

Josh: [00:06:24] If you can just notice, it doesn't have to run you.

Ryan: [00:06:27] Yeah. So let's kinda talk a little bit then about, for example, once we are aware, of this then we need to be motivated in order to be able to move forward and make those lasting changes.

Josh: [00:06:40] Yeah.

Motivation, Cycles and Levels

Ryan: [00:06:41] You talk a little bit about the motivational side of things, and I know that, kinda depending on your camp, there are people who say, "You have to be super motivated, and motivation is the only thing that's gonna get you going," or, for example, you have those other people saying, "No, it's not motivation, it's just simply about building habits."

Josh: [00:06:56] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:06:57] I know we're in the camp where it's a mixture of both.  

Josh: [00:07:01] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so this is where [laughs]-

Ryan: [00:07:04] [laughs]

Josh: [00:07:05] This is where it gets kinda dicey. Cause there's there's motivation regulation, which is just how you manage to do a thing, and then there's this feeling that people call motivation. And I love that feeling calling motivation. It's really cool, and, and it cannot be relied on. [laughs] It can't be the only thing that gets us there. In fact, like we have in the Eating Skills program at Week 3 and Week 6 like, "Hey, did all of your motivation go away? That's normal." [laughs]

Ryan: [00:07:36] Yep.

Josh: [00:07:37] Things are less exciting at Week 3 and Week 6. And, and so it is one of those things where we should expect a cycle, right?

Ryan: [00:07:43] Absolutely. This is something... Sorry to, hijack, the topic here real quick, but very similar to the apprenticeship.

Josh: [00:07:49] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:07:49] And if you ever wanna be a GMB Trainer, you go through the apprenticeship. And, we talk about this on the onboarding from the very first call. And the meeting that we have with, the candidates, I bring that up. And I say, "Listen, this is a four-month process." I said, "The first month, you're gonna be like, 'Oh, this is awesome. This is so cool." By the time you get into kinda the second module, towards the end of the second module, that's gonna start to wane. The honeymoon period is over.

Josh: [00:08:17] Yeah, totally.

Ryan: [00:08:17] "What do you got then?" And we make sure, and I make sure that I let them know that is going to happen. It is natural.

Josh: [00:08:23] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:08:24] You're okay.

Josh: [00:08:25] Yeah. [laughs]

Ryan: [00:08:26] Okay? [laughs] And this is what we're going to do about it. And yeah-

Josh: [00:08:29] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:08:29] ... we set them up that way to make sure that they understand. So yeah, it's very similar to what you're saying so...

Josh: [00:08:34] Which is huge thought because, not everyone, there is a myth in certain fitness circles and, that that feeling is supposed to last. And man, that set me up to-

Ryan: [00:08:48] Oh yeah, it's-

Josh: [00:08:49] for a crash.

Ryan: [00:08:50] Absolutely. Absolutely.

Josh: [00:08:52] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:08:52] But okay, so talking about motivation, okay, let's talk about-

Josh: [00:08:55] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:08:55] ... you know-

Josh: [00:08:56] How to do things. [laughs]

Ryan: [00:08:57] Jump right into it-

Josh: [00:08:57] Yeah.

1st Level of Motivation - Reward and Punishment

Ryan: [00:08:58] ... how to do things, and, I'll just shoot it right out, the four levels of motivation. Let's get into that.

Josh: [00:09:03] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:09:03] Let's talk about that.

Josh: [00:09:05] If you want to get really nerdy, it, this is from self-determination theory.

Ryan: [00:09:08] Do it.

Josh: [00:09:10] [laughs] And, and if you look at, if you look at, the science of motivation, there's kinda four levels. There's actually six, but one of them is not motivated and one of them is things that you do purely for joy. And, and that's, and so those kind of don't come into this conversation. So the first level, everyone's heard of reward and punishment, and everyone, everyone knows that. Not a very good motivator. I mean it doe-, so this is, we're gonna get to guilt but, it's absolutely a way to regulate motivation. It totally works in a very short amount of time. It's one of those things where if that's gonna be the way you get yourself to do things, the fear of punishment or the immediacy of reward needs to be all the time, right?

Ryan: [00:09:55] That's all, that's the only thing I use with my kids. That's it. Just the 

Josh: [00:10:00] stick.

Ryan: [00:10:01] But not really.

Josh: [00:10:02] Stick and carrot. [laughs]

Ryan: [00:10:02] [laughs]

Josh: [00:10:05] So that's not awesome, right? 

Josh: [00:10:06]  Next level, and again it works, it's just short. And it's also not great for your wellbeing, right? It isn't a super fun way to motivate yourself. It isn't super healthy. It isn't great for relationship to your body. 

2nd Level of Motivation - Guilt or Contingent Self-Esteem

Josh: [00:10:22]  So next level, second level, would be, and these are still considered external ways of motivating yourself. The next one would be either guilt or contingent self-esteem. It’s, "I feel bad about myself if I don't do it." Or, "I feel good about myself because I did it." And again, a lot of people look at doing certain fitness things as a way to prop up their self-esteem like, "I did it. I'm a good person. I ate clean. I ate good." And again,  it's, I mean that's a little sketchy. You're putting a lot of the way you feel yourself, about yourself, in the last plate of food you had. [laughs] Right? A nd so that's, again, it works, but it's just, not super healthy and not, not very long lasting.

Ryan: [00:11:13] Quickly, let me ask, if it's okay-

Josh: [00:11:15] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:11:16] ... because you've worked with so many people, and you're so well-read and, what would you say you find that most people use of these? And I know we haven't got into the other levels of motivation, but 

Josh: [00:11:30] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:11:31] ... I just would assume that the first two, reward/punishment, guilt, in terms of contingent self-esteem would be some of the things that people would tend to mainly, and I hate to say it this way, but fall back on-

Josh: [00:11:46] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:11:46] ... in order to, again, try and move forward.

Josh: [00:11:49] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:11:49] Would you say that these would be the main places where people tend to live?

Josh: [00:11:54] Yeah. I think, I think,  

Ryan: [00:11:56] I mean I know maybe it's, there's no data or anything on that, but

Josh: [00:11:59] No it's a great question. I was trying to figure out how to say it. So reward and punishment actually work so poorly that you don't see it as much as you would think in nutrition changes. If someone's like, "Oh, if I'm good, then I'm gonna reward myself with da,"  it just doesn't show up 'cause it almost doesn't work at all. And then, the guilt and contingent self-esteem I would say is where most people live in relationship to eating and fitness and... it's very much around "I feel I good if I did this. I feel bad if, I feel guilty if I did that." and also "If I hit this goal, then I'm gonna feel good about myself. And if I don't hit this goal, then I'm gonna feel bad about myself."

Ryan: [00:12:41] Yeah. 

Josh: [00:12:42] Kinda the same thing. And that's where I would say ev-

Ryan: [00:12:46] And it makes sense too. I mean-

Josh: [00:12:48] ... everyone.

Ryan: [00:12:48] And again, sorry to interrupt there.

Josh: [00:12:49] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:12:49] But I mean, seeing the same thing when, in terms of exercise, people, looking at skills.

Josh: [00:12:54] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:12:54] Just something personally, that was a huge part of my life.

Josh: [00:12:58] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:12:58] And, obviously, now very different. Maybe smarter to the fact, maybe I don't know what it is, but it's just, seeing that a lot of people, especially, younger guys-

Josh: [00:13:10] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:13:10] ... looking at skills as a way to prove themself. We all do it, of course.

Josh: [00:13:15] Oh yeah. Yeah.

Ryan: [00:13:15] And, yeah, just interesting. And so I was just curious as to those two.

Josh: [00:13:19] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:13:20] Jump into the next one. yeah.

3rd Level of Motivation - Goals Related to Values

Josh: [00:13:21] So the third one, and here's where it starts to get more intrinsic, is goals related to values. And, and you gotta be really kinda, clear about this because if it is a goal related to proving yourself or looking cool for other people or that's all external, that's back to contingent self-esteem, right? So people are like, "Oh yeah, goals." And again, I know a lot of people who have hit a lot of goals based on contingent self-esteem. It works, it's just not fun. It's not healthy. It doesn't work for everyone. 

Goals related to values are like, "Here's the kind of person that I want to be, and I think this goal is a game to play inside of going in the direction of the kind of person I want to be." That's way more intrinsic, way healthier, way more effective, way more robust. And it's one of those things where it's interesting because, here's the thing. If you put somebody in an environment where their autonomy is supported and they feel related to their teammates and related to their coach or their friends that they're working out with, and they feel like they're making progress, they feel competent, they'll actually move up the, they'll actually move up the scale on their own. And they'll still talk about goals related to contingent self-esteem, but they'll also have these goals related to the kind of person that they want to be. And it can be the same goal, and they'll pull from both, and that's actually fine.

It's again, getting back to realism and I don't expect people to never have these thoughts again, it's not about never pulling from an external goal or never wanting to look cool on Instagram or... it's not about never doing that. It's about also pulling from these other things related to the character strengths you want to embody and the kind of person you want to be.

Ryan: [00:15:16] Yeah, very cool stuff here, and very deep, obviously. And I think, and I know for a fact that a lot of people actually struggle with this because they haven't taken the time to sit down-

Josh: [00:15:28] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:15:28] ... and properly give thought to what their own personal values are.

Josh: [00:15:34] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:15:34] And, this is something that I love about Eating Skills and they way that you coach in that you're not just doing, it's not a diet.

Josh: [00:15:43] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:15:43] It's, "Yes, you can get abs. If you want six-pack abs or if you want a particular skill, yes, of course. But it's a byproduct of looking deeper and really figuring out truly what you want." For example, to say, "Okay, great. Once you get those six-pack abs, then what?” What is, what is the fate?

Josh: [00:16:03] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:16:03] And then, that's how I look at things right now too as well. It's "I can help you to get the handstands, but, then what?"

Josh: [00:16:11] Then what? [laughs]

Ryan: [00:16:11] And I'm not talking about, "Oh, then I want to one-armed handstand and stuff." Not even that.

 But really why are you   

Josh: [00:16:15] But that's the thing.

Ryan: [00:16:15] It's a never-ending thing.

Josh: [00:16:15] That's what people do.

Ryan: [00:16:19] That's right.

Josh: [00:16:19] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:16:19] It's a never-ending process. And, you bring up Instagram and I mean you know my thoughts on social media. I mean, I would prefer never to be on there.

Josh: [00:16:30] [laughs]

Ryan: [00:16:30] But, we kinda have an internet company, and so I do put things up there. And this is something, again, that I've struggled over the years with is, "Okay, do I just put something up there"... Sorry, this is getting a little personal, but-

Josh: [00:16:42] No, it's great.

Ryan: [00:16:42] ... "Do I just put something in there to show off?" And it, I've always thought, "Okay, is that a good representation of myself?" That's actually, you know-

Josh: [00:16:50] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:16:50] ... it's a tough one. And, coming back to this and looking at the goals related to the values, and that's why I'm very happy that we had the opportunity to create GMB where it's about, "What is it for you?"

Josh: [00:17:03] Yes.

Ryan: [00:17:04] It's not about me. It's not about me doing a one-armed handstand saying, "You gotta get the one-armed handstand," or, "You gotta get the front lever, planche, pushups and things this because those are the things you have to have." No.

Josh: [00:17:13] Sure.

Ryan: [00:17:14] What is it for you? Similarly, with Eating Skills-

Josh: [00:17:17] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:17:17] ... what is this for you in terms of what you value? So yes, number three goals related to values-

Josh: [00:17:25] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:17:25] ... very cool stuff, very deep. Let's go onto number four. What's number four?

4th Level of Motivation - Values

Josh: [00:17:29] Number four, the most intrinsic-

Ryan: [00:17:31] [laughs]

Josh: [00:17:31] ... of the ones we're talking about, is, just your values, right? Not even related to a goal but you're doing a thing just because it expresses the kind of person you wanna be, right? And, sometimes values seem kind of like a big thing. sometimes it's easier to think about just character strengths, are you per-, do you wanna be conscientious-

Ryan: [00:17:54] yeah.

Josh: [00:17:54] ... or connected or self-aware or kinda down to earth things that you can actually make decisions on a day-to-day basis and say 

Ryan: [00:18:02] It makes it easier for, not just for people to grasp but actually to live,  

Josh: [00:18:06] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:18:07] ... on a day-to-day basis, you said. That's really good, yeah.

Josh: [00:18:10] Yeah. It's like if someone was an emergency room doctor, they don't need to set a goal for how many people they wanna save.

Ryan: [00:18:15] [laughs] Oh god.

  Oh, yeah.

Josh: [00:18:16] They just go in and  they care about helping people.

Ryan: [00:18:18] Yeah.

Josh: [00:18:18] And they just go in and help people, right?

Ryan: [00:18:19] That's very cool, yeah.

Josh: [00:18:20] And so that's kinda what we're getting at here. And so quick recap. Lowest level, most external would be reward and punishment. Next, a little bit better would be guilt or contingent self-esteem. Next would be goals related to values. And then, the last would be just values like the kind of character strengths that you want to embody and, and literally just acting from that. And to go back to what you said before, or maybe I said it before, [laughs] but, but just the thing is it's actually normal to pull from different things at different times. It's okay to pull from two at the same time  When they look at wellbeing and the way that they look at your relationship to your body and your relationship to food and, it's not about never having any of the things on the external side. It's, "Can we have some stuff on the internal side, and can we start to pull from that?"

And you mentioned like the Eating Skills program, the values conversation is something that we talk about over 20 weeks. So I just want people to get that if you're like, "I don't know what that is," or "I don't know how to apply it." Take a minute... And we've talked about this on our podcast, take some time and journal about it and google a values list and pick some and journal different ways it could look in your life. And, and realize that if you start practicing, trying to, you're like, "Hey, I'm working on plating balanced meals or stopping when I'm full," or whatever you're practicing, when you start working on your practice from your values, you'll learn more about your values in your life practicing and making decisions with them than will, just journaling journaling journaling. So expect to do some journaling and get kind of an idea, and then practice and then get better ideas.

Ryan: [00:20:08] So good. I gotta throw this in there. I was just talking about this the other day and it's totally relevant. In Japan, they've got a thing called paper driver.

Josh: [00:20:15] Okay. [laughs]

Ryan: [00:20:16] And so it's really expensive to get your driver's license in Japan. The process is crazy. Anyway, there are a lot of people who are only paper drivers. And at first I was like, "What the heck are you talking about?" But basically what it is you go to the driving school and you learn all the theories and you study the books and you take these written tests, and at the very end you get behind the wheel and go through a special course that's created at this school that's contained.

Josh: [00:20:46] [laughs]

Ryan: [00:20:46] And while you do have to go out into real traffic, it's very, I wouldn't say rare but it doesn't happen that often. A person who actually gets their piece of paper, their certificate has no practical experience, they just call them a paper driver. Just exactly what you're talking about, is-

Josh: [00:21:07] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:21:07] ... you might have that license, but the only way to know and to get better with anything is you actually go out and do it.

Josh: [00:21:13] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:21:13] And just this morning I was reading in this, The Daily Stoic, which I read every morning.

Josh: [00:21:19] [laughs]

Ryan: [00:21:19] It was talking about how theories are great but real life is actually different. And the only way to actually understand if y-, or to know if you understand a theory or something that you've studied is actually to put that into practice and test it in real life, and just what you're talking about right now.

Josh: [00:21:36] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:21:36] And really learning more about anything means actually doing the thing that you're trying to learn. Wonderful.

Josh: [00:21:43] Yeah. 

Ryan: [00:21:44] Sorry, I talked a whole lot there. So much good stuff.

Josh: [00:21:46] No, that was a perfect, that was a perfect example, right?

Ryan: [00:21:50] [laughs] The paper driver, yeah.

Josh: [00:21:51] Yeah. you could totally journal about your values forever, and if you never actually start using them in your decision-making process on a day-to-day basis, you're a paper values driver.

Ryan: [00:22:03] A paper values driver. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, so basically that's what it comes down to. And what are your values?

Josh: [00:22:08] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:22:09] Put those into practice. You're gonna get the results.

Josh: [00:22:11] Yeah.

Ryan: [00:22:11] And, yeah, that's pretty much the entire podcast, right? [laughs]

Josh: [00:22:15] 'Cause whoever practices, whoever practices the most wins.

Ryan: [00:22:18] Yeah. No, that's great.

Josh: [00:22:19] And the thing is. 

Ryan: [00:22:20] That's, yes, exactly. That's it.

Josh: [00:22:21] [laughs]

Ryan: [00:22:21] Yeah.

Josh: [00:22:23] People who beat themselves up end up practicing less than people that look at the kind of person they want to be and start doing that. 'Cause you want to be the kind... Oh, so here's another thing, right? Say someone hops on a scale, right? I've had clients with really intense goals and really rigid goals. And they hop on the scale at the end of the week and it's worse than they thought it would be. They wanted to lose two pounds or whatever they were told, but, that they were supposed to lose, and they lost a half a pound. And so they're bummed and they practice less. I've had clients that wanted to lose a pound, and they lost two pounds. They're like, "I'm ahead," so they practice less. [laughs] Right?

I've had, I've seen that so many times. I get that less 'cause I actually don't ask people about, I don't have people, but, back in the day when I used to weigh people in and, and I didn't realize that actually had people practice less. That was one of those things where it, again,  that rigidity to hitting this external goal and then beating themselves up about it just led to less practice. Versus if you're clear about the kind of person you want to be, you want to be the kind of person you want to be whether things are going well or whether they're going poorly. People don't stop wanting to be a good parent 'cause they had a bad day.

Ryan: [00:23:37] That's right.

Josh: [00:23:37] People don’t - 

Ryan: [00:23:38] Yeah, that's right.

Josh: [00:23:39] So that's just another way of looking at ... why pulling from intrinsic motivation is so much more robust, right?

Ryan: [00:23:46] That's good, yeah. Yeah. Be the person that your dog thinks you are.

Josh: [00:23:51] [laughs]

Bonus Tip

Ryan: [00:23:51] Anyway. Whole other thing. Okay, bonus tip. Give us a bonus tip-

Josh: [00:23:55] Bonus tip.

Ryan: [00:23:55] ... and we'll wrap things up here.

Josh: [00:23:57] Now I'm like, "Have I already done this one?" This one's so good it's worth doing twice if I've even done it before. Sleep's a big deal, right? The more you sleep, easier it is to make good decisions. You're more emotionally resilient. You're less likely to emotionally eat. Every single thing you practice with Eating Skills is easier if you get more sleep. You can't actually control how much you sleep, but you can control when you get to bed, right? Just setting a time for when you're gonna turn off your screens and hop into bed is, it is so effective. It is so silly simple and so completely effective. Try it out, it'll blow your mind.

Ryan: [00:24:33] So good. I actually, my phone is set so that I can't use it past 8:00 PM unless I-

Josh: [00:24:39] Oh yeah? That's shocking.

Ryan: [00:24:40] Yeah, unless I get an emergency phone call. Yeah.

Josh: [00:24:42] [laughs]

Ryan: [00:24:42] And then,  

Josh: [00:24:43] That's awesome.

Ryan: [00:24:43] Yeah. That's how I do it. Thank you so much for talking about this, man. If any of you have any questions, feel free to send us those questions. We would love you to ask. And also, be sure to check out the Facebook group, ask your questions there. These questions are taken from the Facebook group. I would love to hear your feedback over there. And again, thanks for listening. Until then...

Laters. Bye bye. 

Josh: [00:25:05] Thanks everyone, see ya.